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New England Euro 2004
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sparky
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Joined: 01 Aug 2002
Posts: 576

PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 22:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

being the jammy tw&t i am, i'm flying off to portugal on saturday for two weeks and we have tickets for nine games including england v france, england v croatia, plus england's quarter final if they finish second. plus portugal at home in the stadium of light and plenty of other saucy fixtures.

we got the tickets for £20 each before the draw was made and couldn't believe it as the teams were pulled out of the "hat". and £79 for the return flight cos we booked it the day they became available.

it's gonna be an unforgettable holiday, but to me supporting england doesn't come into it. 'course i'll want them to win when i'm at the games, and if we get to the semis or something it will be exciting, but to me it's a festival of football and an opportunity to mix with people from crazy countries i will never go to (latvia and bulgaria are also on the list of fixtures i'll be seeing).

we also went to japan for the world cup, and saw an england game there, but to me the highlight was cameroon v saudi arabia because we were in between the opposing fans and the atmosphere was just totally different to any other game i've ever been to. the saudi's had all kinds of musical instruments and the chants/singing from both sides was bizarre.

still say you can't beat the nationwide league though...
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Setareh Juventina



Joined: 01 Dec 2002
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Location: Norrköping, Sweden

PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 07:19    Post subject: Reply with quote

9 games!!! YOu lucky boy!

Faint.

Have a great time!

Love and Peace
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Kris



Joined: 16 Sep 2002
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Location: Sheffield

PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 07:57    Post subject: Reply with quote

a ha! That's why the songs don't come out until the 28th!

Wink
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John Mc



Joined: 29 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 08:58    Post subject: Reply with quote

£20 for a ticket to an international match is great, it costs that to get a sausage roll at some Premier League grounds. It sounds like you'll have a great time over there, going to random games with teams you don't know much about is always good fun.
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Setareh Juventina



Joined: 01 Dec 2002
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 19:15    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was before asked why I don't want England to win, yet another reason demonstrated today: their fans.

1. Singing God Save The Queen...what's wrong with you people? Nationalism is not a a badge to flaunt proudly.

2. Booing Swiss goalkeeper all the time. What on earth is the point? So your player got a yellow card...especially when it's against a weaker team, why bother?

Love and Peace
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paulwhite



Joined: 17 Jan 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 21:35    Post subject: Reply with quote

um um um

whats wrong with singing 'God Save The Queen'?, It's our national anthem, we're supporting our country in a competitive football match, we have the right to sing what we like surely??,

I'm personally anti-monarchy, so I wouldn't dare sing myself, even at the beginning, but I don't think we should label all people supporting england as nationalist or far-right just 'cause they're supporting their country.

Not to come across as a UKIP-nobody or anything, but I think we should have some pride in the country we live, and should show our support in the occasions we can (if we care of course)

I think we need to bridge the gap between people who are proud of britains heritage and history and are not ashamed to show it, and the all out racist bigots who are a disgrace to this country.

I know there's nowhere else I'd like to live.

whitex
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John Mc



Joined: 29 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 23:50    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think the singing of God Save The Queen should be taken as a sign that all of Svens brave boys are proud monarchists. If the country decided that "Wannabee" by the Spice Girls was the new anthem I'm sure they'd all stand there and sing it with enthusiasm and determined looks on their faces. Its just a ritual before international matches and I like it because it makes the match seem a bit more important.

Also you can criticise people who follow England for lots of things but I don't think that having a go at an opposition player is particularly high on the list of things they've done wrong. I'm sure the Swiss keeper wasn't too offended. And I think it would be a bit patronising if they didn't boo because they perceived Switzerland to be a much weaker team.

I'm always confused by people who say their proud of their country. I like living in England but thats just because its where most of my friends and family are. If they all moved somewhere else then I'm sure I'd be just as happy there. Its not where you are, its who you're with as a wise man once said. There's plenty of people who I know I wouldn't like in England so I can't really say I'm proud of all 55 million people.
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ciaranm
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 09:37    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't it weird how some people (and I'm not singling anyone out here, I'm talking in general) perceive nationalism in some countries (England, USA) to be reprehensible, and yet nationalism in other countries (for instance Ireland) is romantic and honorable. It's something to do with the underdog innit?

I've no probs with any team singin' their national anthem, in fact our anthem is all about shooting and fighting the british in the 1920s. I do have a problem with a section of scumbags who time and time again follow the english team. My personal opinion is that the english team should be ejevted from the tournament if there is any more rioting, after all it's a full package, team and fans.
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bravecaptain



Joined: 08 Feb 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 09:51    Post subject: Reply with quote

i was talking to a welsh friend the other day after the france match and he was saying what a joke the england fans were singing land of hope and glory etc (btw all of my welsh friends have vociforously cheered against the english team. all the english people i know cheer on wales, scotland etc when they have games). all sets of fans sing the songs of their respective countries. i dont have a problem with that, people can sing whatever they want whether its songs of love and empathy or tuneless, redundant statements of war and oppression, its up to them. i think god save the queen is one of the most ridiculous songs i've ever heard. its 2004 for fucks sake and we're still placing individuals on pedestals far above evryone else. the royal family as a tourist attraction i can live with but its when people take it seriously that i tune out. people are far more important than countries. i love living in this country, i love the weather and the footy
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Kris



Joined: 16 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 09:51    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally haven't got a clue what would work to stop English "Fans" from being the idiots that they are.

The riots in Heysel is 1985 resulted in all English teams being banned from Europe for 5 years. Has it stopped footy fans from rioting when abroad now? Nope.

I personally am someone that lives in England and couldn't think of anywhere that I'd rather live. However, I honestly cannot think of any one single thing in this modern age that should make me proud to be English, or even British (I'm half Scottish).

Imagine all the people, sharing all the...... blah blah blah yadda yadda yadda

Kinks
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John Mc



Joined: 29 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 10:09    Post subject: Reply with quote

The best national anthem is the French one, its a top tune.

I think violence inside football grounds is generally under control now but there's not much you can do about people miles away from the ground on a night out. Brits will always go abroad, get drunk and get into trouble but the football tournament means that there will be more of them congregated in one place than usual, any incidents will receive more publicity and the police are likely to clamp down much harder because of the reputation of English "fans" from the past. I think its a problem with the drinking culture in this country rather than football specifically.
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Tommy BOO



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 10:46    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I must disagree with Setareh here.
National anthems are just songs, there's nothing too over-nationalistic about them, and being proud of your home country and heritage doesn't make you a patriotic fanatic either.
'God Save The Queen' is not a very good one but it's still the national anthem of England and a part of their history. I do hope that the monarchy collapses one day, because it's just stupid to place some people above others in the hierarchy, like Martin said.
I like to live in Finland and I'm proud of the history as well because we've managed to be an independent and neutral country for such a long time and during very hard times. That doesn't make me nationalist though and I don't walk around the town beating foreign people - I respect other countries and cultures as well and don't think that my country is better than anyone else's.
Finland's national anthem is ace, by the way, it's quite beautiful actually. There's not even a mention of any war in it, which is a good thing really. Although I probably wouldn't mind even if there was... Rolling Eyes

Singing your country's national anthem before the match is an old tradition, so there's nothing bad there. And why would there be? It's just a song! Booing at the opposite team's anthem is a big no-no and it's about the most insulting thing you can do in a football match.

I still like to keep politics and football apart from each other though. In the perfect world they would have nothing to do with each other.
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John Mc



Joined: 29 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 11:23    Post subject: Reply with quote

For all your national anthem queries see www.thenationalanthems.com. The Vatican has its own national anthem, they should consider putting together a football team.

Tommy, I've just looked at the map there and Finland is absolutely huge but there's only 5 million people living there. Forgive my lack of geographical knowledge but is most of the country not habitable? I thinks its your duty to go out and increase the population of the country.
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Setareh Juventina



Joined: 01 Dec 2002
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Location: Norrköping, Sweden

PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 10:57    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, haven't been here for a day...

1. I take back the boo thing, I mean, it was silly of English fans to boo the Swiss keeper, especially when Rooney deserved his card, but over the past day I've been shocked at how boo-friendly all countries are becoming, yesterday Swedish fans (whom I had always perceived as decent) booed Italian players for no particular reason. Booing is wrong dammit!

2. Pride over national heritage etc? I just don't understand...I can't think of one country that has a heritage I'd be proud of.
Just so it's cleared, even though I don't love the national song singing at the beginning of the match my complaint is of fans singing God save the queen in the middle of the match, not the players at the start of the game.

Did anyone hear Gattuso's off-key singing yesterday? It was hilarious, as funny as the Chilean team of WC 1998.

Anyway, Miterrand, a questionable man in many cases but more decent than Chirac, once said something that is appropriate here 'nationalism is the beginning of war'.

National songs ARE odes to nations, they are nationalistic by definition. I don't think everyone who is 'proud' of their country is a racist or anything. And I don't think everyone who sang God save the queen at the matches are far right nationalists but it was very off-putting and sort of ugly.

Anyway, what are you proud of? Countries do not exist, it's a human creation, so you can't love something that doesn't exist. If you love the nature, you love the nature, if you love the government, it's the government you love and so on.

Besides, it's a really awful song, and most national songs are, so what is the point? Is your queen gracious? Is your queen noble? Would you want her to reign over you for a long time?

I have to go to town...Amor y Paz
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Tommy BOO



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 13:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Mc wrote:
Tommy, I've just looked at the map there and Finland is absolutely huge but there's only 5 million people living there. Forgive my lack of geographical knowledge but is most of the country not habitable? I thinks its your duty to go out and increase the population of the country.


The whole Finland is habitable, but most of the people live in the bigger cities on the south coast. Summers in the north are very short and winters are long and cold, so agriculture and stock raising (except for reindeers) isn't very easy up there. That's why not many people live there, there are a couple of little villages and one relatively big city. It's all like snowy tundra in the winter (that's about 6 months a year) but a lot of tourists from all over the world go there every year. Father Christmas lives there by the way, on a fjeld called Korvatunturi (= Ear Mountain). Rolling Eyes
I've never been there but I'd like to, it should be very beautiful there right now because it's almost midsummer. The sun doesn't go down at all, that must be pretty weird! There are also 'aboriginal people' who have been living in the north for thousands of years, the Laplanders. They have their own language Lappish (not many people speak it and I've never heard it) and their ancestors are American Indians! Smile
Finland is probably too big for only 5 million people, the northern villages are dying because too many people move to the bigger cities in south every year. That's quite sad actually, and even all the immigrants always seem to move to Helsinki.
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