IQ & Politics

[Forbes Hyphen]

There may be no war heroes but I'm wearing a poppy because thousands of men and women have given their lives fighting causes that they believe to be right, be it the Nazis in WW2 or those who went to fight the Spanish civil war.

I also believe that many were tricked into joining up with promises of gloryand were used for nothing more than cannon fodder by their ignorant leaders.

The cynic in me also feels that government likes to keep a degree of poverty in the regions as a means of making the young with nothing better to do join the services as a mean of seeing the world and escaping a humdrum life. Otherwise they would have to re-intriduce national service - a sure-fire way of getting young people to vote, but maybe not to remain in power.

I'm no lover of war but I believe those that died and are dying today deserve my tribute

[CranesAreFlying]

OK. No way can I even approach the tip of the iceberg (especially saying as how fast they seem to be melting) on this without writing much more than I can expect you to care to read. But I do need to get in a few points, mainly in defense of Americans (keep in mind I'm not comfortable in this position).

-Only about half the american public votes

-Of these voters only roughly 51% voted for Bush.

-At the same time 48% of voting Americans chose the man billed as "the most liberal member of the Senate" by Republicans

-This country covers most of a continent, with 300 million people, 200 million of voting age. Any broad generalization of "americans" is wrong and unfair at best.

-More enlightening than the IQ chart is this map . Obviously part of the problem is that Reconstruction was a complete disaster.

-More than anything a functioning democracy relies on an educated public. Essentially this comes down to schooling and media. Both of which are in shambles in the US. For more see Chomsky's "Manufacturing Consent" (either the book or the film) or look up his stuff on zmag.org

-We're in this together. Yes american policies impact the entire world and yes it is therefore unfair that no one but americans can participate in the formulation of those policies. But please don't call americans stupid (recall that at best roughly 50% of 50% of americans of voting age have elected this monster). When you say such things you demonize 56 million people who voted against this administration. Many of which have worked hard to try to prevent this from happening. Please do not forget your american brothers and sisters who are crushed by this defeat. And so we are all in this together, each with his own Bush or Blair or Berlusconi.

-Churchill was an asshole

Ta-ta for now says Tigger!
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[BeeOK]

I’m sorry if I offended anyone with my Churchill quote. I’m new at this board and should not get into politics already. Beside I really don’t know much about the man in the first place. I did not post the quote because I myself believed in it but moreso because that seems to be the way most people’s point of view changes over their years.

[mixedcasesspaces]

Some good points there CranesAreFlying, well made.
The map's interesting too.
Maybe the USA is just too big really to have a single person run it.
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[Kris]

One point I have to make, not about Americans but the whole democratic world.

If you choose not to vote at all, does this make you free from criticism?
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[CranesAreFlying]

no, but it doesn't make you necessarily stupid. and can you really blame them? have they really been given a good reason to bother? Over here, our Democrat party is kind of a sorry excuse for a left wing. you can scare people into voting with soundbytes about health care and jobs, but at the end of the day you haven't changed anything. you've just temporarily gained power. A lot of these people are either terribly ignorant (which is more our fault than theirs) or disgusted by the state of the system entirely (ie. far more radical than the democrats. if you believe that the whole thing is a corporate sham, well the democrats are no saints).

mixed, you may be right that the USA is too big. thing is, if it broke up the South would probably become a rogue state and invade us. and you'd have Bush likening himself to Abe Lincoln!

ok, I'm gonna shut up now. i need to stop thinking about all this. time to fire up the old Nintendo!
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"Even I know the solution: love, music, wine and revolution..." (magnetic fields)

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[Kris]

My reasoning is that while I do not call them stupid, I do think they should have equal share of the blame with the stupid people for letting Bush get back in.
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"fashioned by the blade of a world that doesn't care,
feeling so removed, drifting thru stealing air then...
pause and think about it, try to move and shift the pain, but it's there you feel it kicking and you scream and feel alive."

[Setareh Juventina]

"Please do not forget your american brothers and sisters who are crushed by this defeat"

Condolences.

About the voting and non voting. A. if you don't believe in the system, not voting can be a way to make your voice heard. Blank ballots are usually spread among all candidates (well, here anyway, should work the same all over) so that may not be your option.

B. Some people in the USA (and everywhere) live in incredible poverty, they are not in a situation where they can sit and think about who becomes president. Before the 2000 election there was a TV crew from here in Arizona or New Mexico and they didn't have running water indoors and the kid didn't know of Clinton, didn't know he was president. How can such a person be asked to consider voting.

Also, even if they are educated enough they don't trust any of the candidates. If Kerry had been voted in and wanted to help the poorest he still would've had a hard time changing things that much. For many maybe there isn't any difference who gets picked. If you listened to the debates Kerry tried to woe the less fortunate, in this case the middle classes.

Love & Peace
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[mixedcasesspaces]

http://sorryeverybody.com

This is quite interesting anyway!
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[Fidel Castro]

[joeloke22 (not logged in)]

[joeloke22 (not logged in)]

[Setareh Juventina]

That was a mistake, a tv crew from Sweden was in Arizona.

L&P
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[Bev]

I think people should vote, even if you do beleive current politics to be "I think the puppet on the left agrees with my views.." (to paraphrase Hicks).

Even if the slightly-slightly better candidate makes life in some small way better for some people (i.e. like Kerry might have for gay people compared to Bush) then what right have you not to try and secure that for them? I think the only change possible at the moment is gradual & you have to keep nudging things in the right direction...

And I don't buy this 'not voting sends them a message' stuff - can anyone name any policy that this 'message' has actually changed? If anything, it lets the gits think they can get away with more because no one's looking...[/i]
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[Setareh Juventina]

It doesn't send them a message, not in the sense that they will do anything about it, but in a helpless situation that's the only way you told the world how you felt about it.

I don't know, it's just strange participating in a system that you don't believe in.

Love & Peace
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