"1984"

[dRd]

to anyone who's seen the film: Is it any good, particularly in comparison to the book?

I saw the DVD for a decent price today, and was wondering if it's any use

[Guest]

Ive seen a bit of it, I think its supposed to be alright, I saw the start and it had a suitably cold, damp grimey feel to it with evrything all run down and crap. That s what happens when socialists get in charge. Its probably not as good as the book though, which is just about perfect and I wonder if its worth watching because its just a straight adaptation, theres no new slant or angle in it, so maybe its just best to leave the book as your image of the story because I find once of Ive seen a film I always think of the book in terms of those images and it kind of colours it for me. Saying that though, John Hurt is a wicked actor and pretty much nails winston.

[bravecaptain]

"evrything all run down and crap. That s what happens when socialists get in charge"

based on what la?

mx

[Kris]

I was gonna say.... I thought that's what happened after 18 years of Conservative under-funding?
_________________
"fashioned by the blade of a world that doesn't care,
feeling so removed, drifting thru stealing air then...
pause and think about it, try to move and shift the pain, but it's there you feel it kicking and you scream and feel alive."

[Guest]

*looks out of window*

are socialists in charge today? are they the ones that made me drink so heavily last night?

[lomez]

and i even lack the basic motor skills to log on properly.

*sighs, swigs from bottle of warm blue label thunderbird*

[Guest]

i think the last (and only) remotely socialist govt. was after WWII. welfare state, NHS and free playstations for the unemployed.

mx

[Forbes Hyphen at work]

I quite liked 1984 being old enough to watch it in, erm, 1984.

I agree about books being better than films. 'One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest' and 'Catch-22' were so disappointing after having read the novels first.

[Guest]

Hey thats what happens in the book, and historically radical communist (ok they aren't socialist but they share certain ideas and texts) govts tend to fuck things up. Of course so do Right Wing and Neo Liberal Governments, so Im not dissing the left.

[Guest]

Actually having just written the above I realise I have no idea what socialism is, I always marry it with the socialist worker which as far as i can tell is communist. Can anyone explain the difference to me (this isnt supposed to be sarky)

[Setareh Juventina]

Fact is, there has never been a socialist or communist leader in the modern world. Not in the true sense of the words. A true socialist leader would not sit in a fancy house and have a grand time when the regular person out there is poor.
Equality for everyone, I'm beginning to think that humans are too selfish for that ever to work. But maybe I'm wrong.

I just know I wouldn't call the Sovjet government for a communist government, not the way they practiced it. And here's where people make mistakes, they judge the ideology by people who SAY they practice it. I could say I'm a nazi and yet love ALL humans equally, am I then a nazi because I said I was?

Love & Peace
_________________
Man is the only animal clever enough to build The Empire State Building and stupid enough to jump from it.

[PrincessPunkRock]

[Guest]

I agree with you about the problem with labels, I was once having a conversation and this guy was like 'I think Im an anarcho communist', ok excellent I guess that makes me an 'avant liberal neo socialist cook fiend'. My problem with socialism and proclaimed socialists is they draw upon all this imagery and language which has been heavily associated with genocidal regimes and fairly brutal revolutions, Tony Benn who I really respect uses the word Comrade, presumably because of its association with original communists before the revolution and it was warped, but now its been warped I think its important to evolve both the ideas and the language. Murder becomes romanticised because its attached to revolution, Che Guevara killed farmers who were collaborators, Pinochet killed suspected collaborators, so its not the politics its the act thats wrong. And people who say they misinterpreted Marx are wrong, Marx talks fairly explicitly about war and killing of the old rulers, whwther he was exageratting to make a point or not Im not sure but its down there in the manifesto.
Im starting to beleif that any imposed ideology or governing systems that are concerned with grand visions are always gonna fuck up because the world is too complicated and needs to varied and different. Whats needed is more access and participation for people and local needs, higher institutions and goveranance is still necessary but it needs to be openend up. For a prime example of why both left and right wing revolutionaries are twats look at Colombia.
I still dont know what the difference between a socialist and a communist is, Marxists are generally scholars and Maoists psychopaths. But like you were saying labels are inherently misleading, they're supposed to simplify and categorise which leads to narrow thinking based on identification, as soon as a specific group calls a monopoly on people power and being the sole representatives its time to think of alternatives
Thats kind of how Im thinking at the minute, anyhow.

[discoRdance]

12 replies!
*and then he opens the thread and is disappointed by the lack of comments on the film*

I've not read the book either, but I did buy it, and still have it. I also have the film on video, taped from the telly, which I've been wanting to watch but I vowed to read the book first.

but don't let me interrupt the political discourse

[Dave w.]

i haven't read any marx, so i don't really know, but when i did the russian revolution in history at school i think we were taught that socialism was a stage in the process leading to communism. i think communism's meant to be when everyone shares everything and there's no government. i'm not sure what socialism's meant to be from that definition.

maybe it's idealistic to think that people could ever be so lacking in greed and selfishness to allow true equality to develop, but moving in that direction has to be a better way of addressing the world's problems than thinking the market will the answer to everything.

the film of 1984 is meant to be a good adaptation of the book, but i haven't seen it. the book's great.