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Tommy BOO
Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3067
Location: here, there, and everywhere
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 Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 18:10 Post subject: |
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| discoRdance wrote: |
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I forget what side Liverpool put out against them, but I know they had the CL game against Inter Milan a few days later to worry about. Chelsea on the other hand had Derby County up next, so yeah, Barnsley deserve credit for that win. Chelsea had a pretty strong line-up out, too. Guess they didn't fancy the Barnsley pitch. |
Liverpool (against Barnsley)
: Itandje, Finnan, Carragher, Hyypia, Riise, Benayoun, Lucas (Gerrard 75), Alonso, Babel (Kewell 69), Kuyt, Crouch.
Liverpool (against Inter Milan):
Reina, Finnan, Carragher, Hyypia, Aurelio, Gerrard, Mascherano, Lucas (Crouch 64), Babel (Pennant 72), Kuyt, Torres.
Chelsea
: Cudicini, Belletti (Pizarro 74), Terry, Carvalho, Bridge, Essien, Ballack, Malouda (Kalou 62), Wright-Phillips, Anelka, Joe Cole
Ok, both teams had their first choice goalkeepers out (but so did Barnsley!) but apart from that you can hardly say that they were resting all their best players. As you can see, most of the Liverpool players who played in the FA Cup match also played against Inter Milan.
Barnsley had some key players out against Liverpool because of injuries as well, and they also had important games against Norwich and Ipswich coming up. 
So, Barnsley deserve credit for both wins, perhaps the Liverpool and Chelsea players thought that they would just walk over Barnsley, and they didn't realise that it won't be so easy until they were one goal down. In Liverpool's case it was obviously too late for them to do anything, and Chelsea just couldn't break Barnsley's defence that day.
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"Tommy Boo has played a pivotal role in my life. I've looked up to him since I was a kid and he has inspired every note of music I have ever written. The man is a fucking genius"
-BC
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discoRdance
Joined: 20 May 2003
Posts: 1183
Location: Ireland
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 22:58 Post subject: |
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so, apart from Gerrard (for all but the last 15 minutes), Torres, Mascherano and Reina, you're saying it was practically full strength Liverpool? that's four of their five best players, and Carragher probably only played because it was likely he wouldn't have much to do
it was probably just as well that Barnsley didn't have their first choice 'keeper! I think I've already said Liverpool had the Champions League game to think about days later. The big clubs aren't that concerned about the FA Cup anymore, no matter what anyone might say. But yeah, fair play to Barnsley for beating Chelsea, who were only really missing two first picks, and they have more quality throughout their squad than anyone, so no excuses, really. |
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discoRdance
Joined: 20 May 2003
Posts: 1183
Location: Ireland
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 23:00 Post subject: meanwhile, back to the present... |
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Congratulations to Spain on winning Euro 2008 -- fully deserved, and what a peach of a goal by young Fernando Torres to win it.
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Tommy BOO
Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3067
Location: here, there, and everywhere
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:23 Post subject: |
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| discoRdance wrote: |
so, apart from Gerrard (for all but the last 15 minutes), Torres, Mascherano and Reina, you're saying it was practically full strength Liverpool? that's four of their five best players, and Carragher probably only played because it was likely he wouldn't have much to do
it was probably just as well that Barnsley didn't have their first choice 'keeper! I think I've already said Liverpool had the Champions League game to think about days later. The big clubs aren't that concerned about the FA Cup anymore, no matter what anyone might say. But yeah, fair play to Barnsley for beating Chelsea, who were only really missing two first picks, and they have more quality throughout their squad than anyone, so no excuses, really. |
I'm sure that Luke Steele would have loved to join Liverpool on loan for the FA Cup match if Benitez had asked him, so there goes that excuse...
Benayoun played 44 games last season, and Alonso, Kuyt and Crouch all have important roles in their national teams (you've been praising them all lately!)... and how come this £15 million superstar striker (Crouch) suddenly isn't good enough to beat Barnsley then? Anyway, the reason why Torres didn't play was that he was still having problems with some injury, so there was a good reason why they were resting him.
Like I said, Barnsley had two key players out because of injuries as well (and two were cup tied I think, but that's fair enough), at least Liverpool has lots of quality on their bench unlike Barnsley, so in fact Liverpool got beaten by Barnsley reserves. 
| Quote: |
| Carragher probably only played because it was likely he wouldn't have much to do |
There, you've said it. They thought that Barnsley would be an easy ride to the quarter finals, but the reason why Liverpool lost wasn't the team selection, it was probably the attitude of the players... and the fact that Barnsley played well, whether you like it or not.
Also, I don't buy this "they don't care about the FA Cup" crap - I'm sure that Liverpool would have loved to win
something
this season, but you're saying it like they lost the game on purpose so that they could only concentrate on the Champions League!
_________________
"Tommy Boo has played a pivotal role in my life. I've looked up to him since I was a kid and he has inspired every note of music I have ever written. The man is a fucking genius"
-BC
Last edited by Tommy BOO on Mon Jun 30, 2008 13:06; edited 1 time in total |
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Tommy BOO
Joined: 21 Aug 2002
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Location: here, there, and everywhere
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:43 Post subject: |
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Germany 0 - 1 Spain
0-1 Torres - 33 mins.
I couldn't decide who I wanted to win, so watching the match wasn't as exciting as it could have been. It wasn't a bad game though, especially for a final - both teams tried to play attacking football and created some good chances. Germany were frustratingly poor last night, they couldn't break the Spanish midfield, so I would say that the Euro trophy definitely went to the right address.
The only goal of the game came on the 33rd minute, when Xavi's through pass found Torres behind the German defence. Philipp Lahm was still ahead of Torres and should have done more to prevent him to get to it, but at the same time Lehmann on the goal rushed out and Lahm obviously thought that Lehmann could handle it... However, Torres got to the ball first and chipped it over Lehmann and into the goal.
Of course it was great skill by Torres, but Lehmann should take the blame for that goal... why did he come so far out from his goal? There was no chance that Torres could have made a good shot from that angle, and Lahm was still on his side too.
Lehmann did some good saves later in the game, but because the Germans were very poor in the attack, Spain were never in big trouble and deservedly won the match.
_________________
"Tommy Boo has played a pivotal role in my life. I've looked up to him since I was a kid and he has inspired every note of music I have ever written. The man is a fucking genius"
-BC
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discoRdance
Joined: 20 May 2003
Posts: 1183
Location: Ireland
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 14:47 Post subject: |
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| Tommy BOO wrote: |
| discoRdance wrote: |
so, apart from Gerrard (for all but the last 15 minutes), Torres, Mascherano and Reina, you're saying it was practically full strength Liverpool? that's four of their five best players, and Carragher probably only played because it was likely he wouldn't have much to do
it was probably just as well that Barnsley didn't have their first choice 'keeper! I think I've already said Liverpool had the Champions League game to think about days later. The big clubs aren't that concerned about the FA Cup anymore, no matter what anyone might say. But yeah, fair play to Barnsley for beating Chelsea, who were only really missing two first picks, and they have more quality throughout their squad than anyone, so no excuses, really. |
I'm sure that Luke Steele would have loved to join Liverpool on loan for the FA Cup match if Benitez had asked him, so there goes that excuse...
Benayoun played 44 games last season, and Alonso, Kuyt and Crouch all have important roles in their national teams (you've been praising them all lately!)... and how come this £15 million superstar striker (Crouch) suddenly isn't good enough to beat Barnsley then? Anyway, the reason why Torres didn't play was that he was still having problems with some injury, so there was a good reason why they were resting him.
Like I said, Barnsley had two key players out because of injuries as well (and two were cup tied I think, but that's fair enough), at least Liverpool has lots of quality on their bench unlike Barnsley, so in fact Liverpool got beaten by Barnsley reserves.
| Quote: |
| Carragher probably only played because it was likely he wouldn't have much to do |
There, you've said it. They thought that Barnsley would be an easy ride to the quarter finals, but the reason why Liverpool lost wasn't the team selection, it was probably the attitude of the players... and the fact that Barnsley played well, whether you like it or not.
Also, I don't buy this "they don't care about the FA Cup" crap - I'm sure that Liverpool would have loved to win
something
this season, but you're saying it like they lost the game on purpose so that they could only concentrate on the Champions League!
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ehh, why would Benitez ask Luke Steele to join them on loan? it's not like he plays like that all the time. It was just one of those performances you occasionally get in such games. Torres wouldn't have played either way. Most of the Barnsley side are equally rubbish, so it doesn't matter so much who they field! Carragher DIDN'T have much to do, Luke Steele was the one kept busy, nothing to do with arrogance. And I know it suits your argument to say you don't buy into "they don't care about the FA Cup" (not to mention the FA Cup is about the biggest trophy in the world to the supporters of a club that far down the league) but it's true, even those who played on the day would have had the much, much bigger game on their minds, while it was like the Cup final for the Barnsley team and they were trying their absolute best. They rode their luck and scored at the right time. I didn't say Liverpool lost the game on purpose. Wouldn't call it anything near performance of the season, on Barnsley's part - aside from the goalkeeper's role. Nothing lucky about the Chelsea victory, though, as Chelsea never looked liked winning that one. |
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discoRdance
Joined: 20 May 2003
Posts: 1183
Location: Ireland
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 14:49 Post subject: |
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| Tommy BOO wrote: |
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Germany 0 - 1 Spain
0-1 Torres - 33 mins.
I couldn't decide who I wanted to win, so watching the match wasn't as exciting as it could have been. It wasn't a bad game though, especially for a final - both teams tried to play attacking football and created some good chances. Germany were frustratingly poor last night, they couldn't break the Spanish midfield, so I would say that the Euro trophy definitely went to the right address.
The only goal of the game came on the 33rd minute, when Xavi's through pass found Torres behind the German defence. Philipp Lahm was still ahead of Torres and should have done more to prevent him to get to it, but at the same time Lehmann on the goal rushed out and Lahm obviously thought that Lehmann could handle it... However, Torres got to the ball first and chipped it over Lehmann and into the goal.
Of course it was great skill by Torres, but Lehmann should take the blame for that goal... why did he come so far out from his goal? There was no chance that Torres could have made a good shot from that angle, and Lahm was still on his side too.
Lehmann did some good saves later in the game, but because the Germans were very poor in the attack, Spain were never in big trouble and deservedly won the match.
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nice to see a fair summary out of you
Torres won a number of balls that he was no more than 2nd favourite for, including his goal, which was brilliantly executed. I was disappointed by Germany's performance but I think Spain had as much to do with that, as opposed to the German side freezing on the night, for example. |
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Tommy BOO
Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3067
Location: here, there, and everywhere
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 19:41 Post subject: |
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| discoRdance wrote: |
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Most of the Barnsley side are equally rubbish, so it doesn't matter so much who they field! Carragher DIDN'T have much to do, Luke Steele was the one kept busy, nothing to do with arrogance. And I know it suits your argument to say you don't buy into "they don't care about the FA Cup" (not to mention the FA Cup is about the biggest trophy in the world to the supporters of a club that far down the league) but it's true, even those who played on the day would have had the much, much bigger game on their minds, while it was like the Cup final for the Barnsley team and they were trying their absolute best. They rode their luck and scored at the right time. I didn't say Liverpool lost the game on purpose. Wouldn't call it anything near performance of the season, on Barnsley's part - aside from the goalkeeper's role. Nothing lucky about the Chelsea victory, though, as Chelsea never looked liked winning that one. |
Pff, such a typical "big club" attitude. 
How did the "equally rubbish" Barnsley team beat the Liverpool side then, and then did the same against Chelsea a few weeks later?
And professional players who earn millions of pounds every year should be able to concentrate on one game at a time, so this "they were already thinking about the CL game" theory sounds just silly. 
You're right, Carragher and Liverpool's defence didn't have much to do, but what did you expect? Of course Barnsley's only chance was to defend well as a team, and then strike from counter-attacks, which is exactly what they did. Of course it helped that Luke Steele played an excellent game on the goal, but since when has good goalkeeping been called "luck"? Had it been the Liverpool keeper (and not some rubbish Championship keeper) making those saves, you would just call them good saves, not lucky saves...
| Quote: |
| Wouldn't call it anything near performance of the season, on Barnsley's part |
Eh?! The Chelsea game was obviously much better, like I already said, but how many times were Liverpool beaten at home last season? Only Man United and Barnsley managed to do that... Even if Liverpool controlled that game and did indeed create a lot of chances, Barnsley's fighting performance and the result were amazing and definitely something that you don't see every day, not even every season.
Don't forget that Barnsley had their chances too, they still managed to score twice after all, and they could have had another penalty earlier in the game too when Itandje brought down Odejayi on the edge of the penalty area...
Of course it was a big game for Barnsley, both financially and from a footballing viewpoint - just a bit more than two years ago we were still in League One, and not too long before that we were in administration battling against relegation to League Two, so we don't get to play against the Premier League teams that often. Supporters of a club "that far up the league" seem to forget that all the clubs don't have foreign multi-billionaire owners and can't buy their place in the Champions League season after season...
So obviously the Barnsley team were trying their absolute best, but why didn't Liverpool do the same? I don't think that there are players who like to lose when they're playing, so they must have been expecting an easy victory... What else is that but arrogance?
Yeah, a fifth round FA Cup match against Barnsley isn't of course a huge game for Liverpool, but I'm sure that winning the FA Cup would have been a nicer way to end the season than winning nothing.
_________________
"Tommy Boo has played a pivotal role in my life. I've looked up to him since I was a kid and he has inspired every note of music I have ever written. The man is a fucking genius"
-BC
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Tommy Tynans Lovechild
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 854
Location: People's Republic Of BS4 (Though always PL2 4Ever)
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 20:07 Post subject: |
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tommy/disco its only a game and modern football is rubbish
anyhoo i only caught two danny bakers shows - one on that press the red button and see the camera in the studio, strange but didn't detract, and actually added 'cos seeing db's face as he got more and more enthused with the callers stories was pretty cool - anyway toptastic. so great not to have uninformed wannabe alan hansens airing their views on players and clubs/national sides they only ever see on the flatscreen and instead have people rambling about made up leagues/sides, last known resting places of football pitches, decent runners up medals.... top thats the part of the game people should talk about and disect. not the crap on the pitch!! a nice reminder that even in these plastic days football still has a culture.
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discoRdance
Joined: 20 May 2003
Posts: 1183
Location: Ireland
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 02:25 Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Pff, such a typical "big club" attitude. |
ah, sorry, we can't all be martyrs
Liverpool were trying so hard that they couldn't beat mighty, down near the bottom of the Championship, Barnsley at Anfield, but they could turn over Inter Milan, the runaway Italian league leaders (and upto then, unbeaten for several months), in style three days later (with the suddenly fit again Torres). You work it out... It's easy to shout arrogance, but where's the arrogance, if, as you say, they had a strong team out? And it
would
be (part) lucky if a Liverpool goalkeeper got away with conceding so little from so many opposition chances, just as it was for Lucky Steele, I mean, Luke Steele.
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discoRdance
Joined: 20 May 2003
Posts: 1183
Location: Ireland
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 02:32 Post subject: |
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| Tommy Tynans Lovechild wrote: |
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tommy/disco its only a game and modern football is rubbish |
ah, only one of us is taking this seriously
I bought some Danny Baker video about own goals and gaffes once, I wonder what happened to it. I don't listen to the radio, though. Maybe I should, just not for music. |
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Tommy BOO
Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3067
Location: here, there, and everywhere
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 13:34 Post subject: |
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| discoRdance wrote: |
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It's easy to shout arrogance, but where's the arrogance, if, as you say, they had a strong team out? |
Haven't I already explained that in my previous posts? You got to agree that Liverpool did have a pretty good team against Barnsley, most of those players play regularly in top national teams, and only the £15 million man Crouch alone is probably more expensive than the whole Barnsley squad. Of course they had some good players out for various reasons, and there's no doubt that the CL is more important nowadays, but still, how did that squad fail to beat "mighty, down near the bottom of the Championship, Barnsley" at Anfield? My theory is that the players were expecting an easy win and didn't play "properly" (isn't that arrogance?)... and when Barnsley scored the winning goal it was already too late for Liverpool to do anything. And of course Barnsley played very well too, even if they were lucky at times. Feel free to disagree.
You would have thought that at least those players who weren't going to play in the CL match would do their best, but you would also expect a club like Liverpool to handle a game like this professionally. Let's face it, Liverpool have such a large squad full of quality players that they should be able to beat Barnsley even with their second team. This wasn't even their second team (not even close), but sometimes you see surprising results, and that's the reason why football is such a great game. Did you think that Greece were the best team in Euro 2004? Me neither, but they still were the champions in the end. How on earth did France and Portugal (and all those other teams) fail to score against them? They were definitely a bit lucky, but I still think that they
deserved
to win because of their fighting performance. And they did that more than once so it couldn't have been just luck... Football would be boring if nothing like that ever happened.
| Quote: |
| ah, only one of us is taking this seriously |
What is this world coming to if a man isn't allowed to gloat about his team's first successful season in the FA Cup in 81 years and some unforgettable victories? If it was such an unimportant game, then why do you care? It was big news all over the world, even in Finland where hardly anyone really cares about football, so stop belittling the victory with all this "the FA cup doesn't matter" nonsense. It would have mattered if you had won the cup.
All I'm saying is that Barnsley played really well in a game where
everyone
expected them to lose. I haven't even said that Barnsley were the better team, Liverpool could have crushed them if they had been more lucky, but it was still an amazing performance and an amazing result for Barnsley. I think you're overestimating Barnsley if you think that they could play like that every week, and think that it was just an "average" performance.
_________________
"Tommy Boo has played a pivotal role in my life. I've looked up to him since I was a kid and he has inspired every note of music I have ever written. The man is a fucking genius"
-BC
Last edited by Tommy BOO on Tue Jul 01, 2008 14:45; edited 2 times in total |
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Tommy BOO
Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3067
Location: here, there, and everywhere
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 14:23 Post subject: |
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| Tommy Tynans Lovechild wrote: |
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tommy/disco its only a game |
Yeah, I suppose you're right, but as a Plymouth fan (no offense! I like Plymouth) I thought you would understand - I may not get another chance to gloat about my team's success any time soon (I don't want to wait another 81 years!), so I got to get the most of it while I still can!
The League One play-off final victory was already awesome, it may not sound like a very special thing, but it's still my best moment as a football fan. But this season's FA Cup run and especially the games against Liverpool and Chelsea come pretty close to it...
Promotion to the Premier League is still just a distant dream, and as much as I'd like to see that happen again, it's going to be extremely difficult, unless someone invests a lot of money into the club... So yeah, modern football can be a bit crap sometimes, but it's the only game worth watching. Apart from women's beach volleyball.
Realistically
though, I'll be satisfied if Barnsley can maintain their status as a Championship team, and maybe make a surprise visit or two to the top division during my lifetime. At the moment I think that things are looking pretty good again. 
PS. thanks for the pint!
_________________
"Tommy Boo has played a pivotal role in my life. I've looked up to him since I was a kid and he has inspired every note of music I have ever written. The man is a fucking genius"
-BC
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Tommy BOO
Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3067
Location: here, there, and everywhere
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 20:41 Post subject: |
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Anyway...
Tommy Boo's Euro 2008 summary
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I think this year's tournament was the best one that I've seen, perhaps I feel like that right after every major tournament, but I doubt that. There were some really exciting games, lots of dramatic last minute goals, some great attacking play, and loads of goals! The goal average was about 2.5 goals per match if I remember correctly, which is very high in modern football.
Winner
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Spain
Like I said before, the Euro 2008 trophy went to the right address this time. All other teams had some poor moments, but Spain were quite impressive throughout the tournament. I think everyone agrees that the best team won. Even in the final they were clearly the better side, and they played some good football too. The only thing that bothered me a little bit was the time wasting and feigning injuries in some games. Tsk tsk.
Best Player
:
Andrei Arshavin
Okay, I only saw him play in two games (Sweden and Holland) so he may be an unusual choice, but he was simply amazing in those two games. His performance against Holland was the best I've ever seen by any player in a single match. It'll be interesting to see where he's going to play next season.
Biggest Disappointment
:
Group C
, a.k.a. "The Group of Death". It turned out to be probably the worst group in the tournament! France and Italy (especially France) were both
huge
disappointments, how on earth did those two teams get to the World Cup final two years ago?!
Referees
: The standard of refereeing was excellent in my opinion, apart from two or three games. It was nice to see referees that didn't blow the whistle every time someone fell on the ground, but on the other hand they did also turn down some clear penalties...
Can't think of any more categories right now, perhaps I'll add some more later.
_________________
"Tommy Boo has played a pivotal role in my life. I've looked up to him since I was a kid and he has inspired every note of music I have ever written. The man is a fucking genius"
-BC
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Dave w.
Joined: 12 Dec 2002
Posts: 840
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 21:11 Post subject: |
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it's probably the most frustrating thing about being a liverpool fan at the moment, the way the team can repeatedly and deservedly beat the best teams in europe in the champions league and also lose games that should pose no problems.
i think there is an attitude problem somewhere, although i suppose it's natural for players (and fans) to be more motivated by playing against big teams. there's no question that the champions league is the club's top priority at the moment, certainly to the detriment of the domestic cups and at times league form. obviously everyone would rather we'd won the fa cup rather than nothing, but if resting players in that game against barnsley helped beat inter then maybe it was worth it. i'd like the strongest team to be picked for every game, but with the size of the squad, the number of games and the distorting effect of the champions league money that's not going to happen now.
i think we'd have beaten barnsley if reina, gerrard and torres had played. itanje is awful, and his failures spread panic through the whole defence. but the team also played rubbish at times when at full stength, so who knows? on the day barnsley scored two goals, beat the team we put on the pitch and therefore deserved to go through.
fernando torres is liverpool's number nine. viva españa! |
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