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Setareh Juventina
Joined: 01 Dec 2002
Posts: 1415
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
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 Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 21:53 Post subject: Haha... |
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...in the face of yay sayers! L&P
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discoRdance
Joined: 20 May 2003
Posts: 1183
Location: Ireland
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| Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 22:18 Post subject: |
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would this be to do with Sweden's rejection of the Euro currency?
since its introduction to Ireland, the price of many things has just gone up, despite the claims that it would save on currency conversion for when travelling betwen EU countries, and stuff like that... pah
you're lucky. |
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Kris
Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 2550
Location: Sheffield
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2003 07:29 Post subject: |
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Every country I have travelled to since the introduction of the Euro has raised prices dramatically.
In Rome they say things have almost doubled in price.
I bet none of the wages have!
pah
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CranesAreFlying
Joined: 11 Apr 2003
Posts: 247
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2003 08:53 Post subject: |
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| discoRdance wrote: |
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despite the claims that it would save on currency conversion for when travelling betwen EU countries... |
Well, now you're all more closely tied in with each others' downturns right? And what sort of entity does the most "traveling" and conversion of cash? Guaranteed its working out very well for certain people.
could have at least let them all keep their own national currency
designs
. The French bills were so pretty......
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Setareh Juventina
Joined: 01 Dec 2002
Posts: 1415
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2003 09:18 Post subject: |
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| discoRdance wrote: |
would this be to do with Sweden's rejection of the Euro currency?
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Indeed I was! The yes camp have been such utter bullies all along. The socialdemocrats official line was yes but the prime minister, idiot Göran, would threaten ministers who were opposed and said what they thought.
Europe is a continent of many cultures and countries, to think this can be integrated is massively naive. My real wish is for Sweden to just get out of the EU alltogether but if that can't happen at least control over our own economy is decent.
For me, I voted no, it came down to one thing that was certain, democracy would be moved even further away from us. Many things like well fare can be speculated how it would be in the future, but the democracy issue is a fact.
Also, I think a lot of the people who voted no just felt that the EU project hasn't improved Sweden so why get involved even more?
Amor y Paz
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Bev
Joined: 25 Aug 2002
Posts: 843
Location: Nottingham
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2003 16:16 Post subject: |
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... Personally I would vote YES straight away... I don't know what it is like in other EU countries but here all the media against it tend to be right-wing and owned by Americans/Australians... what a surprise they are against it!
If you want 'control over your own currency' then given the world economy you need a currency as strong as the almighty $$$. The US might be in the news at the moment due to its horrendously unfair trade agreements with the developing countires, but to a (much) lesser extent it uses the same divide and conquer policies in European trade...
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Setareh Juventina
Joined: 01 Dec 2002
Posts: 1415
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2003 21:29 Post subject: |
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| Bev wrote: |
... Personally I would vote YES straight away... I don't know what it is like in other EU countries but here all the media against it tend to be right-wing and owned by Americans/Australians... what a surprise they are against it!
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I have heard this, it's insane, right winged/capitalist powers benefit from the Euro, don't know why they'd oppose it. L&P
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Tommy Tynans Lovechild
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 854
Location: People's Republic Of BS4 (Though always PL2 4Ever)
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2003 23:49 Post subject: |
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| I too would vote YES to the Euro. Sure we'd lose out when everything is exchange from £ to E (as i'm constantly told we Brits did with decimilisation) but long term its gotta be good. After all the US began as 13 (???) different currencies and also had differences to overcome to make a unified currency work. It would take years for Europe to suceed with it but it has to be the ideal for the long term. Its just a shame that the French seem intent on ignoring the "rules" for it as their behaviour does help those opposed to it. Still it wouldn't put me off voting for it, so bring it on for the UK! |
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Kris
Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 2550
Location: Sheffield
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2003 08:08 Post subject: |
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I have absolutely no problem with the currency conversion part of it. The problem for me lies in the handing over of our economy. How can people in brussels decide how much to tax a man in Sheffield? Further more, how can they sympathise with spending money on the NHS when many other European countries have no such thing and therefore have a right to complain about it.
It appears unworkable to me to hand over such huge amounts of control.
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"fashioned by the blade of a world that doesn't care,
feeling so removed, drifting thru stealing air then...
pause and think about it, try to move and shift the pain, but it's there you feel it kicking and you scream and feel alive." |
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darraghh
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| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2003 15:58 Post subject: |
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| the euro is super. prices went up in ireland because we are a nation of sneaky cretins always trying to fuck each over. other than that, its really handy for travelling and realising what goods actually cost iun other countries. [/list] |
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Setareh Juventina
Joined: 01 Dec 2002
Posts: 1415
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
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| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2003 22:07 Post subject: |
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Don't be simplistic Darragh...wow that was cruel, anyway, give us proper reasons. L&P
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discoRdance
Joined: 20 May 2003
Posts: 1183
Location: Ireland
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| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2003 17:33 Post subject: |
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he's not being simplistic! if the Irish tourist board was honest, its slogan would be - Come to Ireland, and get ripped off!
easily one of the most expensive places in Europe to live  |
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darraggh
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| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2003 18:54 Post subject: |
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its all true about ireland being an expensive shithole full of purse robbing cretins (but i love it), and granted setareh i am being simplistic about the euro, but to be honest I havenae the energy to write a lengthy post on the subject and if I were to be succint those were the reasons I personally like it. I don't think its got anything to do with the right wing, they're all scared shitless of it. From what I can see its small minded nationalists who panic that adopting the euro will somehow erode their national identity and bring the one step closer to being forcefed frogs legs and bratwurst by shadowy eurocrats who worry about it the most. If Europe is to become an environmentally aware power to challenge the dollar's ferocious oil guzzling hegemony then having a single currency is one way to get there dontcha think? Its not like we're handing over that much control anyway. Anyway I personally wish that someone in brussels was taxing me than the sweaty old crooks (who still tax us) in control here in Ireland.
Maybe sweden don't want it because if you look very closely at the 20cent coin on the map of europe scandanavia looks hilariously like a big dangling bollox.
D. |
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PrincessPunkRock
Joined: 20 Aug 2002
Posts: 258
Location: London, UK
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2003 08:41 Post subject: |
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*laughs out loud*
damn darraggh, i so want to give you a high five right now.
x |
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Setareh Juventina
Joined: 01 Dec 2002
Posts: 1415
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2003 10:28 Post subject: |
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| darraggh wrote: |
Maybe sweden don't want it because if you look very closely at the 20cent coin on the map of europe scandanavia looks hilariously like a big dangling bollox.
D. |
Nah, that's a source of pride  it looks like it in real life too...muahahaha.
Seriously speaking, although some nationalists here are against the Euro the discussion has been very different in Sweden than in the Britain and Ireland.
Here a lot of internationalists and left winged people are against the Euro. Aside from ultra nationalists, right winged people really benefit from this: more money within Europe, less immigrants etc etc. The EU is about the exclusion of others from markets, and it's only an economical union, created in order to increase European power. Personally, I think there's already one too many super powers in the world. Call me an idealist but I want the whole world to stand up to the American domination, not just a group of well off middle aged men in suits.
So far the EU might not have that much power over domestic policies but it's very likely it will if given more power. The EU wants Sweden to stop the state monopoly on alcohol, a question that really is only Sweden's business (in Sweden alchol can only be bought at Systembolaget, this may complicate the purchase of alcohol but at least the money goes to health care for alcoholics etc because it is state owned)...and if they want this today, will they have opinions on our taxes tomorrow? Likely. We pay high taxes in Sweden, but we're also rewarded in many ways other countries are not.
I'm sure there are things that are better in Ireland than other place, the EU might want to change that, and is it democratic if people in Brussels who don't live in Ireland make decisions about Ireland? Or any other country? Especially since we are not the ones who vote for European representatives...that's an undemocratic system.
And forget a European federation, a nation that is created out of the need for economical growth for the wealthy can never be successful for regular people.
It's surprising that you can say you wish Brussels to tax you instead of the sweaty old crooks that tax you now. Do you seriously believe the suits in Europe want what's best for you? They are just as horrible crooks as the Irish if not worse.
We already have the UN, the EU is redundant (I know, the UN is in a sorry state but money and energy could be spent on improving that).
Gah, tired typing...L&P
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