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Kris



Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 2550
Location: Sheffield

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2004 09:28    Post subject: Reply with quote

ciaranm wrote:
How much they detest George Bush is farcical, some frank honesty would be better

Idea of heaven?
Money
Person you most detest and why?
The fucker who gave my latest album/tv show/book a bad review. My ex wife/husband. The kid who bullied me in school.


This strikes me as quite odd. you seem to have an incredibly low view of most people in the world.

I was bullied in a fucking awful way at school, and it left me so scarred it's taken me so far 10 years and probably another 20 before I stop thinking/dwelling/crying about it on almost a daily basis. I have worked on a computer game that for the most part got good reviews but in a couple of instances was destroyed by the press, one person in particular obviously never played the damn thing.

I don't however, hate any of these people more than I hate George Bush. Just because lot's of people say it doesn't make it an auto fit answer. I don't cry myself to sleep at night dwelling on my hatred for the man, and no I am not fully up to date with every single policy of the conservative government in order to base my judgement.

Also, to be fair to Moore, he spends a hel;l of a lot of time destroying Clinton and the Democrats policies in his books too.
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Darraghh
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2004 13:09    Post subject: Reply with quote

for once I can actually say i agree with Ciaran here and vouch that he was suspicious of Michael Moore long before it was cool to do so, and as for him having "an incredibly low view of most people in the world," why not? a healthy dose of cynicism toward people in the public eye goes a long way in this age of bullshit. Incidentally, Ciaran has an incredibly high view of most of his good friends, maybe because he's always incredibly high hahaha.
Darragh.
PS. the new streets album is brilliant, actually its fuckin magnificent but then eweryone already knows. Fuckin top notch.
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ciaranm
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2004 13:21    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bullying thing may have been misinterpreted I just used it as an example of a person that another person is more likley to detest, ie they are more likely to be from their personal life rather than a political figure (if they were being honest). I;m really having a go at how easy it is to bladder on about Bush being the devil blah blah blah, and I'm not aiming it at readers of this board who actually are socially aware and able to put their money where their mouth is.
I'm also not making any excuses for Bush and Co, it's just that he's the cause celebre to mouth off about; actually at least you guys have the power to shift that much more detestable cretin (Tony Blair) who is more morally ambiguous, and downtrodden than Bush which in effect makes him a much more "detestable" person.
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bravecaptain



Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Posts: 859

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2004 14:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

I went off Michael Moore when I went to see him in London a couple of years ago then I loved him again when I saw 'Bowling For Columbine' then I went off him again after spotting some innaccuracies on the third or fourth time (and seeing that website). I was ambivalent about 'Dude!'. I get his mailing lists, he is more concerned about Disney not showing his film at the minute rather than coalition soldiers torturing Iraqis. I have faith in him despite this. Not as funny as Bill Hicks, not as clever as Noam Chomsky, thats not his fault, who is?

Does Michael Moore dream of liberal sheep?

Mx
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Kris



Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 2550
Location: Sheffield

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2004 14:22    Post subject: Reply with quote

ciaranm wrote:
at least you guys have the power to shift that much more detestable cretin (Tony Blair) who is more morally ambiguous, and downtrodden than Bush which in effect makes him a much more "detestable" person.


Now that is one thing we are both in total agreement about. I'm lucky in that through pure accident I couldn't vote for the cunt in 1997. Even so, that bastard and New Labours recent policies give me reason to be ashamed to be English.

Dumb question time.... If all The Liberal Democrats do is say what everyone wants to hear, whay aren't they more popular?

Kinks
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John Mc



Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 1398

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2004 14:56    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kinkster wrote:

Dumb question time.... If all The Liberal Democrats do is say what everyone wants to hear, whay aren't they more popular?

Kinks

I think a big part of the problem is Charles Kennedy. If the Liberal Democrats could get their act together then they'd be in with a real chance of becoming a major political force at the next election. People may turn against Labour if things continue to wrong in Iraq and everyone still remembers how bad the Tories were last time. Charles Kennedy comes across as a decent bloke but sounding like he's got real authority about him. They need a media savvy Blair-esque leader to come in and sort out their public image.

Also I thinks lots of people just vote for the party they've always voted for or their parents did. They'll always vote Labour or Conservative irrespective of current events, leaders or policies. The same sort of people who buy The Sun and think its a Labour paper. Actually it is these days isn't it, that rather destroys my argument but I'll carry on anyway. I don't think the Liberal Democrats have this sort of underlying support and it will take them decades to get it.
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Kris



Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 2550
Location: Sheffield

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2004 15:07    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Mc wrote:
Charles Kennedy comes across as a decent bloke but sounding like he's got real authority about him. They need a media savvy Blair-esque leader to come in and sort out their public image.


This reminds me of the day one of my friends told me the reason Labour never stood a chance in the 80's was because no one would ever vote in a Ginger Welshman.

The truly sad thing is he's probably right. nothing to do with decency or beliefs or policies, just pure image. Rolling Eyes
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Dave w.



Joined: 12 Dec 2002
Posts: 840

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2004 17:27    Post subject: Reply with quote

isn't part of the problem with the lib dems that they're trying to be all things to all people? disillusioned tories who can't bring themselves to vote labour and 'old' labour voters who see them as a left-wing alternative make for a difficult target group of voters.

i've voted lib dem at the last 2 general elections, but apparently their target seats next time are mostly tory seats, so a move to the right looks possible, in which case i don't know who i'll vote for. Confused
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pscenario



Joined: 19 Aug 2002
Posts: 28
Location: London

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2004 17:31    Post subject: Reply with quote

BC quote: "...not as clever as Noam Chomsky..."

Noam Chomsky is fooking ace! His earlier work on structural linguistics is really interesting (this comment is relative of course Wink ), i've been using it in a dissertation on Films and Dreams recently. And, of course, his political speeches/interviews/essays are spot on. There's loads of his stuff at the following:

http://www.chomsky.info/

Read all of it if you've got a spare month! Wink

Patrick
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Setareh Juventina



Joined: 01 Dec 2002
Posts: 1415
Location: Norrköping, Sweden

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2004 21:35    Post subject: Reply with quote

ciaranm wrote:
The bullying thing may have been misinterpreted I just used it as an example of a person that another person is more likley to detest, ie they are more likely to be from their personal life rather than a political figure (if they were being honest).


I still disagree, I think many people who say they hate GW most of all really do. But I for one hate Cheney, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft and Rice just as much if not more. I hate heaps of politicians all over the world, and members of the IMF etc etc.

Love and Peace
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John Mc



Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 1398

PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2004 12:42    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw some of the Liberal Democrats election broadcast the other night. Their message was basically "we weren't in favour of the war and everyone else was. Vote for us and punish the two main political parties." I reckon that approach might be the way to secure votes.

A big worry in the upcoming elections is that voter numbers will be so small that the BNP will be able to win some more seats.
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Tommy Tynans Lovechild



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 854
Location: People's Republic Of BS4 (Though always PL2 4Ever)

PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2004 10:41    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think its quite easy to be critical of Moore, but to be fair to 'im his almost pamphleteering approach to book writing has raised the awareness of some very awful things to an audience that would otherwise have taken no notice and his absolute contempt for opposing views is highly entertaining. Normally its the left wingers who articulate and reason their views on tele whilst the right wingers argue simplicistcally and arrogantly. I think its great that Moore winds 'em up by stooping to their level. Yeah its cheap but sometimes its good to see him do it.
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Tommy BOO



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3067
Location: here, there, and everywhere

PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 21:11    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11 has won the Palme d'Or in Cannes film festival, and according to the article I just read about it, it's the second time a documentary wins this prize, and from what I heard and read this one really deserved it.

Discuss.
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